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Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
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Posted - 2013.04.22 05:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kovak Therim wrote:Cosgar wrote:I think that on paper, the heavy was originally designed to be the ultimate AV class. That's why in earlier builds they had such an insane HP pool because they were supposed to be able to go to-to-toe with HAV. But with the HMG, heavies were also an overly effective anti-infantry class and became unbalanced.
Outside of something that's outright game breaking, I've been against nerfing and instead establishing an effective counter. Heavies should have kept their high HP, but been suspectable to AV. Imagine if swarm launchers, AV grenades and proximity mines were able to target them, but scaled down for the sake of balance. Heavies would still be the intended AV class, but be at the mercy of more weapons than any other infantry class while adding incentive for players to use AV. This could have been a better choice instead of what wound up happening. Heavies are already at the mercy of everything in the game. Add plasma cannons to the heavy killer list. - I genuinely want to laugh at the whole thing tbh
Don't forget the flaylock pistol that will be able to lock on to our fat asses, Well all suits but as slow as the heavy suits are we'll be the most susceptible to them IMO.
I've pretty much given up hope we'll see racial variants for the large frame, I could be wrong but it's just not looking likely.
At this point I just hope they've done something to make armor tanking a heavy suit viable, as it is now with weak ass armor repair for suits it's suicide. Also we can hope that heavy weapons and most notably suit's have seen a reduction in costs. Last but not least (although extremely unlikely) we can hope the heavy suits high/low slots have been reworked, such as basic suits having 2 high, 2 low. ADV A series 2 high, 3 low. B series 3 high, 2 low. Vk 0 2 high 4 low, Vk 1 4 high, 2 low. In all honesty I'd love to see them with the same module setups as current Assault series but I'd settle for that.
If none of what I mentioned happens then **** it I guess I'll play assault |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
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Posted - 2013.04.22 06:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Funny, when I play with heavies, they never seem to have trouble mowing people down and averaging 20+ kills a match. When I'm around, they get access to a full resupply on demand, tons of heals from my love beam, revived with 50% armor, cooked flux grenades thrown at the enemy so they can kill even faster, and covering fire from a mass driver.
Yea mowing down militia to basic fits, but put a PRO heavy against a PRO assault with 450-500 shields and the heavy will lose every single time, even with your love beam planted firmly in his ass. Not to mention the heavy spent 2 or 3x as much ISK. Sorry but in my opinion I shouldn't need a babysitter to successfully run an armor tanked heavy suit. Does a armor tank need a personal babysitter to keep their armor up?
You're argument for heavys being balanced is that they should have a babysitter at all times....really dude? |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 06:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
I saw that post, I then posted an idea to bring heavys to a state somewhat resembling balanced and rather than comment on or critique the idea you essentially respond with "Its fine as is, roll with a good logi like me". |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 06:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote:Another Heavy SOB wrote:Cosgar wrote:Funny, when I play with heavies, they never seem to have trouble mowing people down and averaging 20+ kills a match. When I'm around, they get access to a full resupply on demand, tons of heals from my love beam, revived with 50% armor, cooked flux grenades thrown at the enemy so they can kill even faster, and covering fire from a mass driver.
Yea mowing down militia to basic fits, but put a PRO heavy against a PRO assault with 450-500 shields and the heavy will lose every single time, even with your love beam planted firmly in his ass. Not to mention the heavy spent 2 or 3x as much ISK. Sorry but in my opinion I shouldn't need a babysitter to successfully run an armor tanked heavy suit. Does a armor tank need a personal babysitter to keep their armor up?
You're argument for heavys being balanced is that they should have a babysitter at all times....really dude? this sums it up perfectly. instead of a passive armor repper, how bout an active that for oh say 5 cycles, it reps 50 HP per cycle? (we have with maxed passive skills near 700 armor HP any less would be ********)
You mean over 800HP Armor....900-1000 if you go crazy with complex plates.
I've dreamed of active reppers for heavys for months now, but unless everyone can use it every assault suit and their dog will be bitching up a storm. In short, won't happen.
However repair modules that repair a percentage rather than a fixed amount would work. Or potentially armor repair rate bonuses per suit operation level would help.
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Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 08:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:So much complaining guys, and I don't really get it.
Lets take Vortex, a HMG wielding fatty from SI. KDR well over 7 if I remember correctly.
So we end up in a game with a squad of SI on each team and he totally stomps us. We came 2-3 assault guys on him once and he mowed us all down. I wonder how many skillpoints many of you complaining guys actually have put into it.
When a good HMG starts to hit you, the "gets slowed down due to being shot at by enemy" effect is just insane. I have stood with my 675 HP proto assault build 2 meters from cover and not being able to make it cause a couple of thousands of bullets a minute slowed me enough down to kill me before making cover. This huge weapon related benefit is never talked about, why?
So I ask you, why is it that some fatties are dominating the battlefield, making all the AR tryhards get out of dodge, and some of you have a hard time doing anything by the sound of it?
Is Vortex such a beast to manage this setup properly, or is it just the rest of you that actually needs to step it up a noch?
(And I've got a fatty alt, 3 kdr with less than 1 M skillpoints and even with using the damn almost useless tactical AR)
I've got a 4.1 k/d at 4.8 mill SP so I'd say I'm a pretty decent heavy but that doesn't mean the class is well balanced with other suits.
And as sloth said if three of you attacking him at the same time couldn't bring him down then you're doing it wrong. Use one to make a frontal assault while the other two engage from his flanks and I guarantee you'd have downed him. 3 decent AR's firing on heavy WILL bring him down.
As far as this magical ability to slow you down from being fired upon I'd hardly call it confirmed. Dev statement or in game testing for proof or it's still just a theory. I too have an assault build and have never once experienced this in 2 months 16 days.
Finally my biggest gripe is that armor tanking a heavy suit is a death sentence, the B series is literally the only viable option and without any racial variants coming to the large frame the least they could do is tweak armor repair skill so we fat boys atleast have 2 options. That and the cost of good gear for a heavy.
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Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 09:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:I am running heavy all the time and the largest problem is the high isk price. I will drop quickly and not get many kills if I only go with militia Heavy suit and standard HMG. It works against others in militia suits but that's about it and reasonable fair. The price for my advanced heavy suit and proto HMG is 180k-240k isk which means one death and I will not earn any isk and two death it will be a loss. You dont have to use the best of everything dude. Type 2, a pair of complex dmg mods, a H69-something HMG and some flux grenades. Cheep, Solid, and deadly.
And what is your heavy weapon upgrade skill at? I'm at 220 of 224 CPU on a Type II with two complex damage mods, an MH-82 and a weak sauce basic repper, no room for nades much less a SMG which with a 8 sec reload time can be risky. I thought about bringing up heavy weapon upgrade to 4 for another 7.2 CPU reduction on an MH-82 (barely room for locus nade) but that's 400k SP, may as well just spec up to B series and gain an extra low slot. Hell it's only about 35K more per suit. |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 09:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
KaoticKrusader wrote:The issues with heavies are the cost to run it and the amount of sp to spec in. Also, with the upcoming build, will we see more players respec into the heavy class or heavies specializing out into other classes?
I really want to stay with heavy, there's just something special about having a 2000rpm Gatling gun with 425 round capacity, However I will start the new build with my assault alt and try to get a feel if heavys still have a place on the battlefield. And get some opinions of other dedicated fat boys here on the forum. |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 11:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Another Heavy SOB wrote:KingBabar wrote:So much complaining guys, and I don't really get it.
Lets take Vortex, a HMG wielding fatty from SI. KDR well over 7 if I remember correctly.
So we end up in a game with a squad of SI on each team and he totally stomps us. We came 2-3 assault guys on him once and he mowed us all down. I wonder how many skillpoints many of you complaining guys actually have put into it.
When a good HMG starts to hit you, the "gets slowed down due to being shot at by enemy" effect is just insane. I have stood with my 675 HP proto assault build 2 meters from cover and not being able to make it cause a couple of thousands of bullets a minute slowed me enough down to kill me before making cover. This huge weapon related benefit is never talked about, why?
So I ask you, why is it that some fatties are dominating the battlefield, making all the AR tryhards get out of dodge, and some of you have a hard time doing anything by the sound of it?
Is Vortex such a beast to manage this setup properly, or is it just the rest of you that actually needs to step it up a noch?
(And I've got a fatty alt, 3 kdr with less than 1 M skillpoints and even with using the damn almost useless tactical AR)
I've got a 4.1 k/d at 4.8 mill SP so I'd say I'm a pretty decent heavy but that doesn't mean the class is well balanced with other suits. And as sloth said if three of you attacking him at the same time couldn't bring him down then you're doing it wrong. Use one to make a frontal assault while the other two engage from his flanks and I guarantee you'd have downed him. 3 decent AR's firing on heavy WILL bring him down. As far as this magical ability to slow you down from being fired upon I'd hardly call it confirmed. Dev statement or in game testing for proof or it's still just a theory. I too have an assault build and have never once experienced this in 2 months 16 days. Finally my biggest gripe is that armor tanking a heavy suit is a death sentence, the B series is literally the only viable option and without any racial variants coming to the large frame the least they could do is tweak armor repair skill so we fat boys atleast have 2 options. That and the cost of good gear for a heavy. The thing is that sometimes a direct confontration can't be avoided. Its not like we normally have a problem fighting against heavies. Its just when you have a really good fatty with a chubby chaser behind him and AR guys at the flanks, its really hard to do much short of nade spam when we're in areas with lots of walls/boxes/general cover. The ability that slows you down has been confirmed, I who remember how it was before it was implemented notice it all the time. It was also mentioned by the devs upon the release of that build. This goes for almost all the weapons, not sure about the lasers. In the early days (also much due to poor hit detection) a 1 vs 1 AR fight could last for minutes. Both players goes through several clips, when a guy gets damaged he simply went behind cover. The amount of time it took to down somone relative to the general HP recharge was off. They implemented this slow down effect and I hated it at first but I eventually got used to it. It makes it harder for me reach cover in time but it also makes it easier to kill others. Under the assumption that all guns slow you down when hit, the HMG has a huge benefit since it often slows me down so much that I die even though I'm very close to cover. And I'm not saying that this is the be it all of the fatties. Personally I have over 8 miilion skillpoints solely dedicated to keeping me alive and putting others down with my AR. Can anyone with a similar degree of dedication to a certain role come here and tell me what its like with a fatty? I'd also like to hear what kind of HMG sharpshooter level you have. And for the love of God, why would you put armor plates on a heavy? Isn't it slow enough already? You get about 930 HP with a type-ll suit with passive skills, why not use shield extenders instead? They give you less but they don't slow you down and it will increase the percentage of rapid resetting HP. And don't say "I need those slots for my damage mods" - then you dissqualify yourself from this discussion in my opinion, your scrubbiness is obvious and its clearly you and not the suit thats at a fault.
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Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 11:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Another Heavy SOB wrote:KingBabar wrote:So much complaining guys, and I don't really get it.
Lets take Vortex, a HMG wielding fatty from SI. KDR well over 7 if I remember correctly.
So we end up in a game with a squad of SI on each team and he totally stomps us. We came 2-3 assault guys on him once and he mowed us all down. I wonder how many skillpoints many of you complaining guys actually have put into it.
When a good HMG starts to hit you, the "gets slowed down due to being shot at by enemy" effect is just insane. I have stood with my 675 HP proto assault build 2 meters from cover and not being able to make it cause a couple of thousands of bullets a minute slowed me enough down to kill me before making cover. This huge weapon related benefit is never talked about, why?
So I ask you, why is it that some fatties are dominating the battlefield, making all the AR tryhards get out of dodge, and some of you have a hard time doing anything by the sound of it?
Is Vortex such a beast to manage this setup properly, or is it just the rest of you that actually needs to step it up a noch?
(And I've got a fatty alt, 3 kdr with less than 1 M skillpoints and even with using the damn almost useless tactical AR)
I've got a 4.1 k/d at 4.8 mill SP so I'd say I'm a pretty decent heavy but that doesn't mean the class is well balanced with other suits. And as sloth said if three of you attacking him at the same time couldn't bring him down then you're doing it wrong. Use one to make a frontal assault while the other two engage from his flanks and I guarantee you'd have downed him. 3 decent AR's firing on heavy WILL bring him down. As far as this magical ability to slow you down from being fired upon I'd hardly call it confirmed. Dev statement or in game testing for proof or it's still just a theory. I too have an assault build and have never once experienced this in 2 months 16 days. Finally my biggest gripe is that armor tanking a heavy suit is a death sentence, the B series is literally the only viable option and without any racial variants coming to the large frame the least they could do is tweak armor repair skill so we fat boys atleast have 2 options. That and the cost of good gear for a heavy. The thing is that sometimes a direct confontration can't be avoided. Its not like we normally have a problem fighting against heavies. Its just when you have a really good fatty with a chubby chaser behind him and AR guys at the flanks, its really hard to do much short of nade spam when we're in areas with lots of walls/boxes/general cover. The ability that slows you down has been confirmed, I who remember how it was before it was implemented notice it all the time. It was also mentioned by the devs upon the release of that build. This goes for almost all the weapons, not sure about the lasers. In the early days (also much due to poor hit detection) a 1 vs 1 AR fight could last for minutes. Both players goes through several clips, when a guy gets damaged he simply went behind cover. The amount of time it took to down somone relative to the general HP recharge was off. They implemented this slow down effect and I hated it at first but I eventually got used to it. It makes it harder for me reach cover in time but it also makes it easier to kill others. Under the assumption that all guns slow you down when hit, the HMG has a huge benefit since it often slows me down so much that I die even though I'm very close to cover. And I'm not saying that this is the be it all of the fatties. Personally I have over 8 miilion skillpoints solely dedicated to keeping me alive and putting others down with my AR. Can anyone with a similar degree of dedication to a certain role come here and tell me what its like with a fatty? I'd also like to hear what kind of HMG sharpshooter level you have. And for the love of God, why would you put armor plates on a heavy? Isn't it slow enough already? You get about 930 HP with a type-ll suit with passive skills, why not use shield extenders instead? They give you less but they don't slow you down and it will increase the percentage of rapid resetting HP. And don't say "I need those slots for my damage mods" - then you dissqualify yourself from this discussion in my opinion, your scrubbiness is obvious and its clearly you and not the suit thats at a fault
I love how when somebody disagrees with anyone on this forum it automatically makes them a "scrub".
I can see how the slow down effect would be a cheap band aid for the shoddy hit detection, However I'd still like to see the patch notes from whatever build that this mechanic was implemented.
No I don't regularly use armor plates on my fittings but I occasionally use a basic plate on my B series as the movement speed reduction is not as significant on the B series. Although your comments on armor plates just further proves my point that armor tanking heavys is suicide.
I have heavy weapon sharpshooter 3 although I fail to see the relevance to the debate at hand.
As far as damage mods excuse me if my opinion differs from yours I guess I'm just a scrub. At this point I use them as I brought up shield control first for the passive gain and do not yet have access to complex extenders. Beyond that I believe a heavy should be all about damage output and considering an HMG's ROF that 10% can be a gain of 70HP per second. After all the best defense is a strong offense. Yes once I have access to them I will sacrifice one damage mod for a comp shield extender.
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Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
39
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Posted - 2013.04.22 11:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rigor Mordis wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Heavy suit is easy mode. Easiest suit in the game to use. Has the most Armor easily, a gun that slows enemies when shooting them. Never has to worry about running out of bullets. Can just hold down R1 easily. EASY MODE! I kind of agree on this. There are ways to counter them but a smart and skilled heavy just has it too easy.
IMO people just say this to make themselves feel better about not being successful in a 1v1 with a heavy....much like Basic fit assaults blaming the suit when they lose a 1v1 against a proto assault....
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